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Post by jimmyjet on Jun 16, 2020 10:10:42 GMT -5
At the dock this past Saturday to take the family out on the boat and experienced something I've not seen before and cannot find enough detail in the Owner Documentation to troubleshoot the issue. Wiring diagrams are not detailed enough.
Turned the ignition key to start the starboard engine with the intent of warming it up and checking the tranny fluid for the V-drive. As soon as the key was turned to the start position a loud "pop" came from the bilge. The pop sounded much like was the result of an electrical short or arc. Subsequent to that you could only hear the starter solenoid "chatter" when the key was turned. So assumed the starter motor brushes had perhaps burned out or arced causing the starter shaft to seize. Checked cable connections at the batteries and starter...all were secure. There is a "spring loaded" battery switch next to the ignition switches that allows an engine start from either strbd or port battery alone if held to one side or the other with both batteries hooked in parallel for more cranking power in the center position. I discovered the starboard engine could be started by holding the switch to either battery but not in the parallel position. Started the starboard engine multiple times that way before leaving the slip for the gas dock. After fueling the boat the starboard engine would not start....no chattering starter solenoid...nothing....nadda! Only sound was the switching relay could be heard moving when selecting strbd or port side battery but the engine was as if the batteries were not connected. Motored back to the slip on the port side engine which has performed and started normally the whole time. Now the crazy part....after docking in the slip, tying up and connecting shore power, I thought I'd turn the ignition key on the starboard engine (just for grins)....the engine starts "normally" multiple times irrespective of battery parallel switch position. This has confounded me and really left me scratching my head....
Does anyone have more in-depth knowledge of the wiring detail on this vessel or have dealt with a similar situation that could share some info?
TIA - JJ
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Post by tc33obx on Jun 16, 2020 10:31:37 GMT -5
Its a little difficult to follow since I don't really understand the full setup of your boat, however it sounds to me like your transfer switch may be toast or faulty and that in combination with older batteries that are low on power maybe causing some inconsistencies in starting possibilities. How old are your batteries, or what kind of volt readings are you getting from them? I'm thinking connecting to shore power and the battery charger took the problem of the lower batteries out of the equation so things start pretty normally with your battery charger powered with shore power. But the original issue may be that your transfer switch is faulty and could be causing inconsistent connectivity from either battery to either engine and possibly problems charging them as well.
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Post by jimmyjet on Jun 16, 2020 17:27:56 GMT -5
Its a little difficult to follow since I don't really understand the full setup of your boat, however it sounds to me like your transfer switch may be toast or faulty and that in combination with older batteries that are low on power maybe causing some inconsistencies in starting possibilities. How old are your batteries, or what kind of volt readings are you getting from them? I'm thinking connecting to shore power and the battery charger took the problem of the lower batteries out of the equation so things start pretty normally with your battery charger powered with shore power. But the original issue may be that your transfer switch is faulty and could be causing inconsistent connectivity from either battery to either engine and possibly problems charging them as well.
The battery parallel switch wiring layout is part of my question....the port engine started perfectly normal, the starboard engine did not. When the problem became evident, only the starter solenoid chattered when turning the ignition key unless the parallel switch was held to the port or strbd position. Then trying to start at the gas dock some fifteen minutes later NOTHING happened when turning the strbd ignition key irrespective of battery switch position....but the port engine started normally with each attempt. Back in the slip, now the strbd engine starts normally....[shrug]
JJ |
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Post by tc33obx on Jun 17, 2020 8:19:23 GMT -5
the other thing I would check would be loose or corroded cables. If you have cables with loose connections or corrosion you will get intermittent starting as well. The fact you had the gene running at the gas dock kills my theory about the batteries. I'd start by checking all the connections from the starters back to the batteries.
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Post by jimmyjet on Jun 17, 2020 11:17:27 GMT -5
the other thing I would check would be loose or corroded cables. If you have cables with loose connections or corrosion you will get intermittent starting as well. The fact you had the gene running at the gas dock kills my theory about the batteries. I'd start by checking all the connections from the starters back to the batteries. |
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Post by gofast24 on Jun 18, 2020 9:42:14 GMT -5
If you have a "parallel" switch your engine starting batteries shouldnt be wired in parallel in the engine room? Check the battery voltage (after turning off house battery charger and all dc load breakers for 24 hours).If DC voltage at battery terminals is above 12.6, battery OK, check for corrosion at battery posts, starter solenoid and all ground wire connections. if below 12.6 VDC buy a new battery.Good luck, let us know how you proceeded and results.
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Post by jimmyjet on Jun 19, 2020 11:30:35 GMT -5
If you have a "parallel" switch your engine starting batteries shouldnt be wired in parallel in the engine room? Check the battery voltage (after turning off house battery charger and all dc load breakers for 24 hours).If DC voltage at battery terminals is above 12.6, battery OK, check for corrosion at battery posts, starter solenoid and all ground wire connections. if below 12.6 VDC buy a new battery.Good luck, let us know how you proceeded and results.
One additional thing I was able to sort out yesterday was that the starboard engine shift lever was likely just "ever-so-slightly" out of dead center NEUTRAL when I attempted to start the engine after fueling at the gas dock and the reason for why I had "no chattering starter solenoid...nothing....nadda!" on that engine. When motoring back to the slip with only the port engine, the strbd shift lever was likely returned to the "centered" position and started when I turned the key "just for grins."
Still trying to sort out the issue of the initial "POP" heard when first trying to start the starboard engine last Saturday and to why that engine will only start while exclusively drawing from the port OR strbd battery. As said before, the port engine will start normally from the parallel position as well as either battery alone....but the strbd engine only starts using either battery by itself....just not with both in batteries in parallel. That should eliminate battery cable connections or a weak/bad battery as the problem and point in the direction of an issue with the relay switching for the battery parallel system, which based on the existing conditions....the port/strbd sides must somehow operate independently of each other considering the port engine starts in the default (parallel) condition but the strbd engine doesn't.
Back to the bilge....JJ |
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Post by jimmyjet on Jun 29, 2020 22:46:11 GMT -5
If you have a "parallel" switch your engine starting batteries shouldnt be wired in parallel in the engine room? Check the battery voltage (after turning off house battery charger and all dc load breakers for 24 hours).If DC voltage at battery terminals is above 12.6, battery OK, check for corrosion at battery posts, starter solenoid and all ground wire connections. if below 12.6 VDC buy a new battery.Good luck, let us know how you proceeded and results.
My assumptions based on the owners manual information was incorrect and this is what I have since discovered in the past couple days... The batteries are NOT run full-time in parallel but are connected directly to their respective engine.... the "battery parallel switch" at the helm panel (between the ignition switches) accomplishes one and ONLY one task....that is to complete the parallel connection to start an engine off of BOTH batteries... Regal could have accomplished the same thing with a two position spring loaded switch! (and saved the confusion) Moving this switch to port or starboard does the same thing either direction....it closes a relay to connect both batteries in parallel.... That being understood led me to descend into the bowels of the bilge (not an easy task). Reading the voltage for all the batteries from the power panel in the cabin did not provide an accurate indication (just so you know).... reading the voltage with a volt meter for isolated batteries showed 10.7 VDC on the starboard battery. Removed and replaced BOTH batteries (as long as I went to the trouble of crawling in there) After removing the starboard battery, I discovered the source of that "POP" I described as sounding like an "electrical short or arc".... the whole side of the battery had burst open! (pic included)
Also concluded that the source of the problem was due to what I had initially assumed to be a problem with the volt meter on the instrument panel... it read 18 volts or more at anything above idle rpm on the starboard engine... instead of an indication issue, it is actually a failed alternator voltage regulator on the starboard engine.
Batteries replaced today... engines turn over normally! New alternator ordered and should arrive tomorrow afternoon and I anticipate all will function properly once I get that put that in place....
JJAttachments:
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Post by tc33obx on Jun 30, 2020 9:40:34 GMT -5
I’m glad you were able to figure your situation out. The layout of the parallel switch you described is as most of us would expect on a multi engine vessel. However, you never know what may have been installed back in 91 or what could have been changed by previous owners for the heck of it. I”m glad you were able to sort your issue. Welcome to multi engine boating.
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Post by gofast24 on Jul 2, 2020 10:00:52 GMT -5
the other thing I would check would be loose or corroded cables. If you have cables with loose connections or corrosion you will get intermittent starting as well. The fact you had the gene running at the gas dock kills my theory about the batteries. I'd start by checking all the connections from the starters back to the batteries. Probably not a good idea to have a gasoline powered gen set running at gas dock? |
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Post by gofast24 on Jul 2, 2020 10:13:55 GMT -5
Also, hope you do not run the alternator (engine) with defective voltage regulator producing 18 VDC. That will kill your new battery for sure. As well, thanks for posting your problem and resolution. That helps all of us out with a similar problem in the future. Happy 4th of July and stay safe!
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Post by jimmyjet on Jul 2, 2020 18:12:43 GMT -5
Also, hope you do not run the alternator (engine) with defective voltage regulator producing 18 VDC. That will kill your new battery for sure. As well, thanks for posting your problem and resolution. That helps all of us out with a similar problem in the future. Happy 4th of July and stay safe!
JJ |
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