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Post by gofast24 on Jun 28, 2020 9:43:34 GMT -5
Here is another possible issue about the install from the factory which I do not like and wonder if that is part of my problem. The output fore the bilge pump is only 4 inches above the waterline. It comes into the boat a goes up about an inch then runs across the back of the boat about 5 feet horizontal then down below the waterline to the pump. If you look at every bilge pump installed guide they say/require the outlet be 12 inches about the static waterline. At only 4 inches there is not much to prevent water running back into the hose when stopping, coming off plane or rough conditions. I was thinking about extending the hose and running it up a foot then looping down into the pump. The pump docs indicate to add a vented loop but other sources say you don’t need that if the output if above the water line. Thoughts??? Good idea, like a reverse trap on a sewage line or HVAC condensate pump. The height of the upward loop should keep water from sea incoming? Make the top of the upward loop as high as possible, the higher the better. If you are going to do it? Let us know final outcome! |
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Post by gofast24 on Jun 28, 2020 9:48:33 GMT -5
Agree. Still wondering if the OP's vessel is a 2020 why the dealer doesn't correct this under warranty?
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Post by rlazar on Jun 29, 2020 15:04:35 GMT -5
All there is small loop in the bilge hose just after it enter the boat. Then flows down about a foot, then horizontal for whole then down about another foot.
So even though there is a small loop, if we are stopped for example and waves are hitting the back of the boat water does flow back into the boat. I went down in there and say/heard the water flowing back as waves hit. I suspect if we are going in hard reverse the same might happen. So I just think replacing the bilge hose with a longer one and having it loop up a foot before going back down wound just work better.
In terms of the dealer they are 3 hours away by boat and almost as far by car. They also say they will only do what Regal authorizes. As of now the initial problem of the bilge coming on 100’s of times in an hour seems to be working better. They raises the float about 1/2 inch and on my last 3 hour tip ( 1 hour of chop) the bilge didn’t come on once.
I need to see what happens in more harsh conditions. For now I’m going so send pics and report my findings to both the dealer and regal and then hang tight so see if the issue is really resolved or not.
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Post by rlazar on Jul 9, 2020 12:05:23 GMT -5
Update. I manually pumped and dried out my bilge then we took the boat out in some rougher seas. Nothing terrible but good chop for sure. Again my bilge pump kept going on, not as bad as before the float switch was raised, but still not normal. When I got back to my slip, I had 2 gallons of water in the bilge so water is getting in somewhere. Almost everything is a closed loop aside from the bilge hose which is where I suspect water is flowing back in. The output of the hose is about 4-5 inches above the water line, then comes into the boat and does a tight loop, only about an inch up then flows down and across to the pump. The pump is in a small chamber that has two holes on either side that will allow water from other parts of the bilge to flow in. My plan is to dry out the bilge again completely and temporarily block those two holes and go out again in chop. If I have water in the bilge pump area the ONLY place it can come from is the hose itself with water flowing back into the boat. If water is instead in the other parts of the bilge then I will have to figure out where its coming from. If I can confirm water backing in from the bilge hose, I am going to replace the hose with a longer one so when it comes into the boat I can loop it up 12 inches+ before it turns down and across to the pump. I read somewhere I don't need to vent loop if the output itself is above the water line which makes sense to me. The current setup does not have a vent loop. The arrow is pointing to the hose just as it enters the boat and does a tiny loop before heading downward. Instead I am going to run straight in for about 12 inches then I have room to loop up a foot then back down and across to the bilge pump.  Here you can see the hose running down after entering the boat, it then runs across to the center line then down again to the bilge pump.  Ther pump itself is in box like chamber with two holes at the bottom on either side to allow water to flow in. I am going to temp block those and that way I can tell if water is back flowing in from the bilge house outlet.  |
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Post by gofast24 on Jul 10, 2020 10:24:08 GMT -5
Regal/Dealer should fix this! Our 2X bilge pumps discharge about 3' above water line. Yes, we have a lot more free board than your vessel. If you are going to block the input holes to housing dont leave it that way when away from boat! Not sure why Regal put a plastic box with 2 small holes with bilge pump inside? Possible float switch should have been a inch or so above bottom of hull so it didnt keep running when dry but that should be a function of the mounting position of the switch? Go to regal web site, go to customer service, give hull number and indicate hour problem! Leave th dealer out as they dont seem to be correcting anything themselves? It isnt your problem that the dealer is hours away from your vessel! The dealer should send a mechanic to boat, not you getting to them!
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Post by rlazar on Jul 10, 2020 10:43:06 GMT -5
Regal/Dealer should fix this! Our 2X bilge pumps discharge about 3' above water line. Yes, we have a lot more free board than your vessel. If you are going to block the input holes to housing dont leave it that way when away from boat! Not sure why Regal put a plastic box with 2 small holes with bilge pump inside? Possible float switch should have been a inch or so above bottom of hull so it didnt keep running when dry but that should be a function of the mounting position of the switch? Go to regal web site, go to customer service, give hull number and indicate hour problem! Leave th dealer out as they dont seem to be correcting anything themselves? It isnt your problem that the dealer is hours away from your vessel! The dealer should send a mechanic to boat, not you getting to them! It's not a plastic box... it's a fiberglass molded compartment in the bilge. The dealer already had a tech in my boat and we did a sea trail and they said it was totally dry. The problem was conditions were flat. Through this entire issue the dealer has been working with Regal directly including the guy who specifically looks for issues on the 38 out in the field so they can see common issues or trends. As far as plugging the holes, that was just for a quick test to isolate if water is coming back in the bilge hose or not. I'm all for my dealer fixing this full stop but like I said I am far away from them and if I can help diagnose or provide additional info I will. I need to figure out where the water is coming from when conditions are rough. In theory and in a perfect world they would send somone out tomorrow and keep working on this until it was resolved. However given location, conditions, workload and working through many hands ( dealer service, dealer techs, regal engineering, etc) this is a long drawn out process. There are a number of other items when I just turned around and figured out/solved on my own. While I am trying to work through the "process" I am also not waiting around. |
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Post by gofast24 on Jul 12, 2020 9:51:12 GMT -5
Sorry, dont know where I got plastic box from, can see molded in "box" depression in your pic!
Also, believe most if not all sump/bilge pumps have a anti drain back valve in the discharge fro the pump(s). Possible your bilge pumps dont but ours does, put them in to preclude water ingress from heavy/high seas.. On inland lake Lanier really no high seas to speak of.
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Post by rlazar on Jul 15, 2020 11:12:17 GMT -5
So I am still working on this... Trying to identify and verify where/how some water is getting into my bilge during rough conditions. I don't want to replace the bilge hose and add the loop unless I have to. I have been doing a good amount of research on that and its amazing how there are so many different opinions on best ways to run a bilge hose. In reading some of the standards and best practices it also seems that was not followed on my 2020 38XO. For example the pump wire leads needs to be high above the the water line inside the bilge and if not, the connections needs to be watertight. In my case the connections are neither high or water tight... very disappointing. My high water and bilge connections are on open terminal block just a few inches above the top of the pump.
Anyway, I did find other AC outlet hoses into thru-hulls that were not completely tight so now I'm going over the boat and tightening all wire clamps.
Ideally I could find a true marine/systems expert in this area and hire them to help me fix/correct/cleanup/improve the bilge and other thu-hull outlets/system on my boat.
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Post by rlazar on Oct 9, 2020 14:21:00 GMT -5
I wanted to provide and end of summer update to the water in the bilge and pump running issue.
For the summer the problem pretty much has gone away by me running with the trim tabs slightly down. This has the effect of pushing the bow down but also lifting the aft up. My prevailing theory all this time is there is some water coming in from the bilge output hose/thru hull which is only about 4-5 inches above water line. Riding with the tabs slightly down and lifting the after up seems to eliminate or greatly reduce the water coming in and the pump does not activate. I will report my findings to the marine when the boat is laid up over the winter but I'm pretty much going to insist on running a new bilge hose that rises up 12 inches above the water line before looping down to the pump.
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Post by gofast24 on Oct 11, 2020 11:14:18 GMT -5
Yes, get bilge pump discharge hose a foot above water line if possible. Thinking more about the "depressed" fiberglass "sump" area in the bilge that would be there to pull out as much water as possible when water ingress into bilge, the ultimate "lowest" point, good engineering! But, bad that discharge is only 4" above water line! How far is it from pump discharge port to thru hull discharge fitting? If not much more that 3 - 4 feet possibly have new thru hull discharge put in a foot or two higher? There will be a limit on the discharge head the bilge pump is capable of handling, check the specifications on the pump for that limit. Good luck!
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Post by xixp on Oct 11, 2020 20:25:07 GMT -5
Hi
If you check my post about my Sc35 sump pump ive described an “airlock “ problem with it.
Well ...airlocks are created , among other causes” due to “ U” hose runs at the pump outlet that traps air.
Bilge pumps manuals recommend to run straight up hose sections to the discharge outlets.
Therefore your idea of adding a longer hose might bring you a new problem.
Pls Check this vIdeo ive found useful to understand my issue...
Another possible solution would be to add a one way / flap style valve at the discharge outlet as its used in self bailing cockpits. I havent looked into them in detail but may be there are discharge outlets already fitted with rubber flaps to avoid the problem you are having.
Hope this helps...
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