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Post by jnelson90 on Feb 3, 2021 14:38:15 GMT -5
FYI: I also have a 3860 and switched from lead acid to AGM. There is a switch on the back (have to remove from firewall to access the switch) to change from lead acid to AGM (at least on my Charles charger). Hope this helps.
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Post by faverod on Feb 3, 2021 20:02:22 GMT -5
They put the switch on the back? No wonder I’ve never found it.
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Post by jnelson90 on Feb 5, 2021 11:44:05 GMT -5
Certainly not ideal to have the switch hidden on the back but suspect they had a good reason for doing it. Here is the page from the manual showing the switch on the back for all Charles "C" series chargers.
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Post by gofast24 on Feb 7, 2021 6:47:39 GMT -5
I’m interested in this install as well. I have a 3860 too and have considered upgraded from my lead acid  that I just replaced in 2020. I’ve added more solar for this year 550w’s but the constant voltage of Lifepo4 is intriguing. I’ve been struggling how to deal with the alternators being over taxed and burning out the diodes. I hadn’t considered just disconnecting the house from the charging block and directly connecting to its leg of the house charger. I was considering a battery to battery charger to go from my starters which are still lead acid to the lifepo4 house which I think is the best solution. But if I had 550w solar charging the house through a mppt charger and the option to charge through the Charles charger whether on shore power or on the generator, that might just be sufficient. I’ll be curious how the AGm versus lead acid on the Charles charger works for you. Since there’s two types of batteries and only one setting on the Charles charger, you don’t have much choice but default to the lead acid for the starters. At least the solar has a lithium setting plus custom set points but that’s really only used at anchor. The rest of the time I’d want the Charles charger to keep it topped off. That’s where the B2B comes in handy. Also, since we’re up north I need to take the lifep04 battery home for the winter so it wouldn’t freeze. The lead acid I just leave in fully charged and their fine. I was thinking of getting two 100 ah so they are a little more manageable due to weight and size over a single 200 ah. That’s hard to move and drop in on your own despite the weight reduction. Trying to find voltage vs. charging amps curve for my Charles 5000 series but Charles out of business (for some time now). Have finished playing (testing) the 200 AH LiFePO4 battery at home. Using just a old transformer type 6 amp "automatic" car battery charger it will bring 20% DOD (depth of discharge) back to 13.8 VDC (using great new battery monitor gage indicates 97% SOC (state of charge). Then, connected the OEM supplied (with battery) 10 AMP LiFePO4 specific charger it brought voltage up to 14.1 and gage indicated 100% SOC in less than 5 minutes. So, I am fairly sure our Charles charger (set to AGM with the secret hidden switch) will work fine? Attached pic's as to how I am connecting shunt directly to negative battery terminal (many trips to NAPA/ACE hardware/and Amazon orders). Now having two SAE posts can just re use existing battery cable connectors as is.   . Small red wire shown from B+ terminal to shunt is to supply B+ thru harness to gage at helm for both powering it and measuring voltage. Added 1 amp in line fuse just to be safe! Told son that wire is what is going to power the 2X 600 W RMS audio amps  Regarding a previous post I replaced the lead acid (flooded) starting batteries with AGM so both them and house battery are all AGM and doing fine with the Charles. Possible next weekend to install new LiFePO4 battery (46 lbs.) and take 122 lb Group 8 D out. Interesting, NAPA, where I bought it 7 years ago indicated they will give me $77 for it, no purchase necessary so that is what I will do. Last Concern = When LiFePO4 battery gets down around 40%/50% DOD will the 2X 65 AMP VP engine alternators survive a long (10/20/30 minute) full 65 amp load as the LiPO can/will draw up to 200 amps (no problem for the battery) in its attempt to become fully recharged while engines running. We will find out, but nice that the new battery monitor will be showing the charging current real time and I will stop engines if it gets to that high current for more than a 5/10 minutes . If that remains questionable I will jut disconnect the engine alternators from the house battery isolator and let the Charles do the job either on shore power or gen set. PS: The battery has both SAE posts and M8 female thread in end of each post ! Just crazy hard to find brass M8 bolts so went with SS M8 bolts. |
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Post by lg260ss on Feb 7, 2021 7:59:05 GMT -5
After changing to my LiFePO house batteries last year I did not see a difference in current feeding the batteries when the alternators were charging the batteries. It would start out between 50-60 amps and drop from there.
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Post by gofast24 on Feb 7, 2021 11:42:42 GMT -5
After changing to my LiFePO house batteries last year I did not see a difference in current feeding the batteries when the alternators were charging the batteries. It would start out between 50-60 amps and drop from there. Thanks LG! But what was DOD (depth of discharge so other folks know what we are talking about) when observing 50/60 amps? The deeper the discharge is the longer/hotter the propulsion engine alternators will get? We will soon find out on ours when installing in a week or two. Just FYI= our 8.1 GSiI-A engine alternators are rated for 65 amps each, took a lot of work to find that out ! Have a old friend/colleague retired from VP that got me the info. This exercise has been fun especially when I was claiming how well our 8 D AGM house battery was doing after 7 years duty |
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Post by lg260ss on Feb 7, 2021 14:50:21 GMT -5
After changing to my LiFePO house batteries last year I did not see a difference in current feeding the batteries when the alternators were charging the batteries. It would start out between 50-60 amps and drop from there. Thanks LG! But what was DOD (depth of discharge so other folks know what we are talking about) when observing 50/60 amps? The deeper the discharge is the longer/hotter the propulsion engine alternators will get? We will soon find out on ours when installing in a week or two. Just FYI= our 8.1 GSiI-A engine alternators are rated for 65 amps each, took a lot of work to find that out ! Have a old friend/colleague retired from VP that got me the info. This exercise has been fun especially when I was claiming how well our 8 D AGM house battery was doing after 7 years duty I’ve been down as low as 25%, but I don’t recall if I had looked at the charge rate that specific time. |
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Post by gofast24 on Feb 8, 2021 6:07:32 GMT -5
Thanks LG, What size (AH) battery do you have? We bought a 200 AH to replace 220 AH AGM, LiFePO4 weighs 46 lbs., 8 D AGM about 120 lbs! Almost like leaving one kid at home (well, one grand kid). For others here, a LiFePO4 battery can be safely discharged (DOD) down to 20% (use 80%) with no effect on cycle life. For Flooded or AGM recommended DOD is down to 50%,no more, otherwise will greatly effect cycle life. This is the battery I purchased from Amazon but here it is $200 less (FYI a new NAPA 8 D AGM is about $680) (wow, what a address!) = www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001961313097.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.31e81652j62yII&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.169870.0&scm_id=1007.13339.169870.0&scm-url=1007.13339.169870.0&pvid=abeab22a-c817-4d31-9c46-900c2f01e908&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.169870.0,pvid:abeab22a-c817-4d31-9c46-900c2f01e908,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2373_668%23888%233325%2316_668%232846%238108%231977_668%232717%237561%23324_668%231000022185%231000066059%230_668%233468%2315609%23252 |
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Post by lg260ss on Feb 8, 2021 20:01:42 GMT -5
Thanks LG, What size (AH) battery do you have? We bought a 200 AH to replace 220 AH AGM, LiFePO4 weighs 46 lbs., 8 D AGM about 120 lbs! Almost like leaving one kid at home (well, one grand kid). For others here, a LiFePO4 battery can be safely discharged (DOD) down to 20% (use 80%) with no effect on cycle life. For Flooded or AGM recommended DOD is down to 50%,no more, otherwise will greatly effect cycle life. This is the battery I purchased from Amazon but here it is $200 less (FYI a new NAPA 8 D AGM is about $680) (wow, what a address!) = www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001961313097.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.31e81652j62yII&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.169870.0&scm_id=1007.13339.169870.0&scm-url=1007.13339.169870.0&pvid=abeab22a-c817-4d31-9c46-900c2f01e908&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.169870.0,pvid:abeab22a-c817-4d31-9c46-900c2f01e908,tpp_buckets:668%230%23131923%2373_668%23888%233325%2316_668%232846%238108%231977_668%232717%237561%23324_668%231000022185%231000066059%230_668%233468%2315609%23252 I have 2- 100 ah battleborn batteries. |
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Post by gofast24 on Feb 10, 2021 11:15:51 GMT -5
Great batteries but most likely pricey? Why did you go for 2X 100 AH vs. 1 X 200 AH, not enough room in engine room for 1X 200 AH ? From all my research it seems all the prismatic LiFePO4 cells come from China anyway, including the BMS's in the box? Will see once getting ours installed and let son crank the amps out of it . Still really impressed with the the $44 battery monitor/shunt system. Have been playing with it with battery still in shop charging / discharging and verifying meters voltage/current readings with my own meters. almost dead nuts (+/- 0.5%). |
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Post by gofast24 on Feb 26, 2021 11:29:16 GMT -5
New 44 lb. LiFePO4 200 AH battery going in Sunday Anyone want a good 8 D AGM ? Interesting, NAPA, where I bought it offered me $77 just for the lead, no new purchase required ? |
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Post by faverod on Feb 26, 2021 12:21:57 GMT -5
I've been all over the place trying to think of an install of my own based on what you all have shared. I've even considered building my own battery but I recently just found this 350Ah battery that'll fit in my tray: www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001625488578.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.1a013c005AJGet&mp=1Now I just need to get some validation on wiring and charging the LiFePO4. I think what I'm hearing is basically disconnect the House battery from both the shorepower charging as well as the lead to the alternator charging block. Then I can insert a Victron Battery to Battery charger between my Port Starting battery and my House. That should offer it a customizable charge for its battery chemistry and charge from both the shorepower and the alternators without the need to put in a voltage regulator to the alternators nor a different house charger with a specific Lithium charge profile. I added solar last summer so that would stay the same just adjusting the charge profile to the Lithium setting. The new battery has a BMS with Bluetooth so I should be able to monitor charging with cell balance visibility too. Am I missing anything you can think of? ![]()   |
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Post by gofast24 on Mar 2, 2021 11:58:44 GMT -5
That's really big , 350 AH! What size boat do you have and what DC loads do you have (your a full member but no info on boat/location/engines/ etc)? Do you have a invertor to produce 120 VAC for whatever? With the testing I did at home a normal 30/60 amp house battery charger set to AGM will charge my 200 AH to 98% of full, I can live with that! The situation with LiFePO4 batteries is that they can take a full 1C (your case 350 amps) charge no problem! Then, the potential problem if battery down to 50% DOD or so, at sea, when you start your propulsion engines the alternators will go to full rated capacity for hours trying to charge battery, those engine alternators are not designed to produce max. rated current for more that 15/30 minutes and then the possibility they will get toasted. So, yes , a DC/DC charger will limit the amount of current from the engine alternators to protect them, the battery wont care either way! Good luck and let us know what you end up doing! PS: I bought my 200 AH battery via Amazon, safest in my opinion but found same battery on Ali for $200 less but 3-4 month delivery time! Second PS: Looked at Battery monitors with blue tooth but all reviews said range was only 10-15 feet so just bought a shunt with a data cable that we will wire from battery to gage at helm, dont need Bluetooth?
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Post by faverod on Mar 2, 2021 15:38:22 GMT -5
I Actually already have a Victron battery monitor with Bluetooth that pairs with my Victron charger so I'm covered on monitoring loads. The bluetooth for the battery BMS is more to setup setpoints for charging and temperature ratings as well as seeing cell voltages. The 350ah is more for the reason that I can fit it in my current box without issue and still save weight. I don't run an inverter for anything, yet. I'm using all 12v loads but I did do a fair amount of draw monitoring this year on my 3860. If its hot out and both the galley and cockpit fridges are running I can easily draw 7-9 amps per hour without cellphones etc. I'd like to have a comfortable 200 amps of capacity if there's no down side in size or weight. |
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Post by gofast24 on Mar 6, 2021 11:28:07 GMT -5
Ok, 7-9 amps for fridges is usually just a intermittent load? Your battery monitor will tell you the amp-hours used when running over time? Thanks, again, our Charles 60 amp house charger set to AGM wont have any problem with our 200 AH LiFePO4 battery, just not known yet what the engine alternators will do when Li down to 50% SOC. Will find out in a few weeks. First thing will be install battery and Battery monitor, use up 25/50% of capacity, then start each engine and see what current going to battery in that state (the battery shunt/monitor meter will indicate amps in/amps out) . If above 50 amps for one engine or 100 amps for both running will consider a DC/DC regulator between engine alternators and house battery. If not, start 7.0 kW westerbeke gen set and let it charge new Li house battery for 15/30 minutes or so, then shut off gen set, start engines and see what current pushing into house battery? Has been fun so far but a few tests left to determine if possible to burn up engine alternators in above case? Checked replacement alternators cost, $89 each |
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that I just replaced in 2020. I’ve added more solar for this year 550w’s but the constant voltage of Lifepo4 is intriguing. I’ve been struggling how to deal with the alternators being over taxed and burning out the diodes. I hadn’t considered just disconnecting the house from the charging block and directly connecting to its leg of the house charger. I was considering a battery to battery charger to go from my starters which are still lead acid to the lifepo4 house which I think is the best solution. But if I had 550w solar charging the house through a mppt charger and the option to charge through the Charles charger whether on shore power or on the generator, that might just be sufficient. I’ll be curious how the AGm versus lead acid on the Charles charger works for you. Since there’s two types of batteries and only one setting on the Charles charger, you don’t have much choice but default to the lead acid for the starters. At least the solar has a lithium setting plus custom set points but that’s really only used at anchor. The rest of the time I’d want the Charles charger to keep it topped off. That’s where the B2B comes in handy. Also, since we’re up north I need to take the lifep04 battery home for the winter so it wouldn’t freeze. The lead acid I just leave in fully charged and their fine. I was thinking of getting two 100 ah so they are a little more manageable due to weight and size over a single 200 ah. That’s hard to move and drop in on your own despite the weight reduction. 
